Echo Chamber vs. Discussion: Hat’s Off To The Pink Agendist, née Mr. Merveilleux

Over at Coalition of the Brave, it seems that some of their writers don’t like having their views challenged.

And to top it off, a blogger who I have had severe disagreements with in the past, is the only voice making any sense over there.

You might be asking, ‘what is he going on about?’

Well, I think (maybe it wasn’t me but someone else or a combination of more than one person or incident) I broke the Coalition of the Brave with my evil insistence that the writer back up her assertion that she was using facts…when she wasn’t.

The conversation we had was taken down shortly after, and only comments that agreed with the author were left up.

So unfortunately, I can’t show you what the original conversation was about. It had something to do with Melania Trump and fashion designers refusing her service.

But…I can show you how the site owner is now apologizing because he (again, I think he’s referencing me) had the audacity to say that I had made a valid point. At the time, he admitted that his writer had used an unfortunate word choice. Since then, I guess he’s lost that writer as well as another one.

Let’s get into this new post.

I should have said this ages ago. I’m going to say it now. 

This Coalition has recently lost two fantastic contributors because I didn’t stick up for them. Why didn’t I stick up for them, I hear you ask?

Oh, but why did you not stick up for them?

I tell myself it’s because I don’t like confrontation, but that’s bullshit. I did it on the grounds of white male privilege. Not knowingly, but that’s the reason.

Holy crap. Bloody hell. You’re going to apologize for being white and male. That somehow makes your point invalid?

What you originally did (in my case) was fine – you admitted that you thought they were wrong to assert something as fact that wasn’t fact. That has nothing to do with your skin color or gender.

Snap out of the white guilt, mate. Being white and male isn’t something to be ashamed of any more than any other skin color. They are arbitrary attributes, and you didn’t choose to be born white or male. You’re a person and your opinions are just as valid as someone else’s, regardless of their skin color.

It sounds like you’re referencing more than one case, but people shouldn’t need protection from disagreement. A public blog isn’t a safe space and if you’re going to blog about controversial topics, you should expect to be disagreed with.

It’s all well and good offering platitudes and nodding and saying you understand, but unless you’ve walked in another person’s shoes, you can’t claim to truly understand their experiences. I am not black, nor am I a woman – and I’m never going to be either of those. When they came to me with concerns about being harassed and belittled, I should have tried to see things from their perspective. 

Trying to see things from anthers perspective is a good thing to do no matter who you happen to be talking to. It’s called empathy and self-reflection. It’s also why we have language. We can talk to one another and explain how our experiences impact us as individuals.

However, being black, white, gay, heterosexual, man, woman etc doesn’t mean your opinion is more valid than someone else’s. Being disagreed with is not the same as being harassed.

And maybe she was harassed. I don’t know what he’s referencing here, but I find it hard to believe that someone that seems as reasonable and mild-mannered as Darth would sit on his hands and do nothing if someone were truly being harassed.

But that’s just my opinion and certainly not a fact.

Whether the people doing the harassing knew what they were doing, I don’t know. It’s entirely possible that, like me, they weren’t consciously doing it, and just couldn’t perceive their actions through a different perspective. Sometimes our privilege blinds us. We are guilty of institutionalised sexism, racism and bigotry, without even realising it.

Nah, mate. You’re basically saying people are guilty of thought crimes. You don’t get to assert that everyone is racist, sexist and bigoted.

That’s not how it works. It might work that way in Regressive Land, where everyone is valued based on how many oppression’s they can claim, but not in reality.

Oh yeah, and if your referencing me in this part, please know I was consciously disagreeing with that author. I knew exactly what I was doing. When people say that something is a fact when it isn’t, I challenge them on it.

Then Pink comes into the picture. And damn if I didn’t find myself cheering.

pink

Hell yes, Pink. I think you’re missing the point though – these people (besides the blog owner, I think, who seems reasonable) don’t want discussion. They want yes men and women to nod and tell them how right they are and how oppressed they must be.

pink2

Pink is absolutely right here, but the response he gets is priceless. He’s told that he’s part of the problem because he’s a man.

Check your privilege, Pink! Don’t you know you’re a white male!

Pink is now being problematic. He’s part of the problem.

pink_3

This is my favorite bit here. This is exactly what I told the site owner previously.

If you want to run a site based on discussion, you have to allow dissenting opinions and in my humble opinion, he should find writers who hold a differing viewpoint from his regular contributors to showcase a different point of view. Otherwise, you’re running an echo-chamber.

Like Pink says here, if you want to ‘change minds’ you need to engage people in discussion. Not create an echo-chamber.

Last but not least, good job on being the voice of reason in this case, Pink.

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33 Comments

  1. GC I must admit I am so over identity politics and these SJW’s. I can’t even be bothered arguing with them now. I applaud you for your efforts.

    Our friend Pink has very strong opinions, it good to see that we can at least agree with some of them.

    As to Melania Trump, I find that the fashion folk refusing to dress her to be a bunch of hypocrites. The thing is they are making political something that should not be political.

    Whilst I was no supporter of Trump, these stupid and silly hissy fits by SJW’s actually push me towards supporting him. I am just so over it all.

    • “Whilst I was no supporter of Trump, these stupid and silly hissy fits by SJW’s actually push me towards supporting him. I am just so over it all.”

      Yup. I know how you feel. I think that’s why the Right is gaining power.

      Honestly, I would likely (if forced) classify myself as a Liberal, but the further left the Left goes, it feels as if I’m going to the Right. It’s not that I’m moving, but that the side I would usually identify with politically is sprinting away from me.

  2. “The conversation we had was taken down shortly after, and only comments that agreed with the author were left up.”

    Firstly, this can’t be true, as I deleted the blog. So no, only positive comments weren’t left. Nothing was left. Nothing left in moderation, nothing at all, because I deleted everything.

    Secondly, Ben isn’t telling you why I deleted my posts, and my blog page, because he’s incredibly polite and respectful and the reason has nothing to do with you, or not being able to handle dissent. If it was, I wouldn’t have deleted my own blog. I did so for reasons that are really none of your business, and are extremely private and personal.

    If you want to attack Ben, the Coalition, or anyone else because of why you think I left, why you think I deleted my blog, perhaps stop using it as “someone couldn’t handle you disagreeing with them”. As I don’t think you’ve ever come to my personal site, I think me deleting my own personal page because of you would be going a mite too far, don’t you think? Regardless, you can reply, or you can ignore. I really don’t care. The reasons have nothing to do with you, and it might serve you better to realise that. That way, you can argue about how you think the Coalition should be run in a constructive manner, instead of thinking the focus is on me … when it isn’t and wasn’t. Ben’s just trying to cover a personal situation for me, and that’s all you need to know. He’s trying to do an admirable thing to protect me (and again, not for you). I needed to go invisible for reasons that are irrelevant to this post, so even if you do reply, I quite possibly won’t get it. I’m using an alias email, and a fake name.

    Whatever your opinion of me, I’d prefer if you could respect that, and leave it be (my name out, I mean, the way you’ve done). I appreciate it, quite a lot (obviously, I’m being mentioned on the Coalition, but I mean here). Anything else, go for it. I don’t care what you say or think; it’s just bigger than you. I just wanted to let you know something, as Ben’s taking hits he shouldn’t have to for me, and after everything, that’s not entirely fair. Please understand that when Ben is saying it’s bigger than that, he actually really means it. At least, that’s the case for me.

    Best of luck to you.

    • Hi. Thanks for stopping by and setting the record straight.

      “Firstly, this can’t be true, as I deleted the blog. So no, only positive comments weren’t left. Nothing was left. Nothing left in moderation, nothing at all, because I deleted everything.”

      Maybe it was a hiccup then because I stopped by after and could read the first bit of comments but not my own.

      “That way, you can argue about how you think the Coalition should be run in a constructive manner, instead of thinking the focus is on me … when it isn’t and wasn’t.”

      Yes. That was my main point and the reason why I said I didn’t know for sure and that it sounded like multiple reasons.

      ” I needed to go invisible for reasons that are irrelevant to this post, so even if you do reply, I quite possibly won’t get it. I’m using an alias email, and a fake name.”

      Fair enough and I sincerely hope that you’re safe.

      “Whatever your opinion of me, I’d prefer if you could respect that, and leave it be (my name out, I mean, the way you’ve done).”

      Done. I certainly will do that. 🙂

      “Best of luck to you.”

      Same to you and thanks again for stopping by.

      • Well, there you have part of the details. I can’t speak for their reasons, but like you, I hope they are safe.

        Please try to understand, that whilst I didn’t ask for the mantle of leader of the Coalition, I am in that position and what that means to me is being as sensitive as possible to the people taking part – not just to their positions, but also who they are as people. This is new to me. This project takes me outside of my comfort zone. I won’t lie – between this and a private matter I have a mouth ulcer where it’s been stressing me out.

        I don’t want animosity. That’s the last thing I want or need right now. I don’t know what the next step forward is, but whatever it is, I hope it can be taken mutually, by all parties.

        • “This project takes me outside of my comfort zone. I won’t lie – between this and a private matter I have a mouth ulcer where it’s been stressing me out.”

          I hope you straighten it out and that ulcer heals up, mate. I think you’re a good person.

          “I don’t know what the next step forward is, but whatever it is, I hope it can be taken mutually, by all parties.”

          You’ll figure it out. I think the concept you have there is a good one. I just think you need different view represented.

  3. Seriously? Did you even read the full conversation. I didn’t say it anything was his fault or that he was at fault for being a man. How about you actually pay attention to all of the details and not just the parts that let you complain about things that you clearly don’t know about.

    My issue is with people like you. You pick and choose what you want to address without focusing on the whole picture.You purposely say shit just to start an argument even when you don’t have all of the facts (you can’t deny this because you’ve actually admitted to it before). If you want to have a conversation, great. But that includes listening to someone else (which you apparently are incapable of) and looking at all of the details in front of you . Just like the last time that you wrote a post about me, this bullshit is based off of something that I never even said

    • “Seriously?”

      Yes. Seriously.

      “Did you even read the full conversation. I didn’t say it anything was his fault or that he was at fault for being a man.”

      Up to that point. I must have dreamed up the screenshot where you said ‘as a man’ as if that matters one bit.

      “My issue is with people like you”

      Cool.

      “You purposely say shit just to start an argument even when you don’t have all of the facts (you can’t deny this because you’ve actually admitted to it before). ”

      Where did I say this?

      ” If you want to have a conversation, great. But that includes listening to someone else”

      All ears. You’re free to add your opinion whenever you wish and I will always read it.

      ” Just like the last time that you wrote a post about me, this bullshit is based off of something that I never even said”

      Nah, you said it. I screenshot and directly quote from your work so that people like you can’t pretend you didn’t say it.

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