Re: The Irony of Atheism

Just read a Christian post and I felt compelled to respond. It’s titled The Irony of Atheism, and you can read it in its entirety by following the link.

Let’s jump into what this bloke has to say.

Atheists claim that Atheism is not a religion because it is a disbelief in a supernatural being of any kind whether God or gods.

Strong start! Bravo!

Just a small correction though, you can be an atheist and believe in the supernatural. For example, you might believe in ghosts.

But still…strong start. Carry on.

However Atheism is itself a “Belief” that claims that God or gods do not exist that also requires of its adherents a “leap of Faith” without a single shred of evidence to support it

This is the sound of my face hitting palm.

Smack. Smack. Smack.

I’m going to move past this because it’s not really necessary to respond, in order to address the author’s larger point. I’m going to bite my tongue.

While Atheism removes God or gods from the equation Humanism – on the other hand – enthrones/substitutes man’s wisdom in the place once reserved for Divinity.

First off, you have to provide evidence that your scriptures are divine and not man-made. If they’re man-made, then how are they better than Humanism?

Humanism has the ability to change along with culture, scientific understanding and moral progress, while religion is either unable to, or is so slow to make, moral progress. Religion often impedes ethics, precisely because so many think it’s divinely inspired.

If you truly believe scripture is handed down by God, there is no good argument against a divine being. The book is right and the only way to fight such a system is to cherry pick verses or reinterpret the text.

A secular religion that is undermined by its adherents willful blindness in regards to man’s fallen nature, which leads to the false conclusion that man has no need of redemption.

I think most people accept that they’re not perfect and humanity as a whole isn’t either.

However, that doesn’t mean we need redemption from an invisible super-deity. It means we need to be aware of that and strive to improve ourselves and our collective lot here on this little blue planet.

Consequently any movement or political system based upon Atheism and Humanism – Marxism,  Communism and/or Catholicism: Humanism masquerading as a religion fo example – without fail end up enslaving and persecuting the very one’s they claim to represent and serve.

I agree with you on Marxism and Communism. We are seeing a resurgence in cultural Marxism right now in the West, and I believe it’s screwing crap up, but that’s another post entirely.

Again, I’m going to resist the urge to go off on a tangent.

But…how did Catholicism make your list of atheistic political movements? That’s freaking absurd. Catholicism is definitely religious in nature.

I also want to point out that you can be religious and embrace Marxism or Communism. You can also be an atheist, like me for example, who wholeheartedly rejects the notion of collectivism. I’m for individualism, which is directly opposed to collectivism. I am not an ally of Marxism or Communism.

Making Atheists no better than those Christians in name only, who give full reign to the evil lurking within their own unregenerate hearts, in spite of their profession to believe in the Father Above.

Atheists aren’t better than religious people. I don’t think most atheists believe they are.

The problem is that your rigid ideology shuts down conversation and we believe it isn’t correct. Why would I want to be governed by a system of rules that I find archaic, untrue and often cruel and barbaric?

I don’t.

One need only to look at the historical record of Russia and East Germany under the reign of Communism: A political system based upon Atheism and Humanism. Whose leaders enslaved and murdered their own people and allowed their air, land and water to become heavily polluted with industrial wastes.

Pretty sure we’re not doing a great job in the whole pollution part either, mate.

Again, I agree that atheism doesn’t shield people from bad ideologies. They can not believe in God(s) and still embrace other social or political ideologies that might be harmful.

However, those political dogmas you mention are themselves ideologies and they’re not based on atheism. Let’s say hypothetically that everyone agrees both Marxism and Communism are bad.

Communism = bad.

Marxism = bad.

Atheism is separate from either. As you rightly pointed out when you began this post, it’s merely the lack of belief in God(s).

People are complex. For example, you can be an atheist and embrace the teachings of Jesus. You can be a Christian and believe that Communism is better than Capitalism and collectivism is better than individualism.

In fact, you can have religious communism.

How’s that for a mind-bender?

I think the take-away from this is ultimately that things are rarely black and white.

 

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73 Comments

  1. “A secular religion that is undermined by its adherents willful blindness in regards to man’s fallen nature, which leads to the false conclusion that man has no need of redemption.”

    I believed this as a fundamentalist Christian. Whatever I did wrong, all I had to do was say I’m sorry to a deity and all was forgiven. Now that I am a de-convert, I feel I hold myself to a higher standard because there is no one to hold myself accountable to but ME. Does this make sense ? The buck stops with me.

    • I’m so glad someone else points this buck stopping out. Even with a cursory glace at the idea that religion provides the means for a ‘higher’ morality, this shifting by religious people (and other good little totalitarians) of moral responsibility from them to someone/thing else demonstrates why the moral argument is actually compelling evidence for religious moral irresponsibility. “He made me do it,” or “Just following orders,” is an avoidance tactic. It is both immature and irresponsible. Why religious people so often think this avoidance is evidence of a ‘higher’ morality demonstrates the moral immaturity at the heart of religious belief..

      • “One must state it plainly. Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion, and one would like to think—though the connection is not a fully demonstrable one—that this is why they seem so uninterested in sending fellow humans to hell.”

        ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

  2. I dont think the good poster who linked catholicism and atheism together has really READ the bible. The entire new testament is about Jesus, and mary (who gets applause but not much else attention) and it was, I’m sorry, Catholicism that got it all started.

    They chose the word Catholicism (or whatever word translated that to) to appease the Roman emperor, since the word means ‘universal”. Christianity as we know it today didnt splinter off until Martin Luther and his tenets. The only major difference is the church one goes to. Galling as that may be to them all.

    Where do they think those monks and nuns and priests and excuse me, POPES came from?

    Beyond that, my only religion is me. I don’t deny anyone else a belief in anything, whether it’s god or jesus or the skyfairy, nor do I insist they have to believe in anything I do. Or not believe it.

  3. Despite the Trumpquake of racist white Christians like the idiotic blogger you cite having now taken over the trillion-dollar military and trillion-dollar oil and gas and nuclear destruction of humanity’s environmental necessities, you are blog-worried about – “cultural Marxism?” What the hell is that? Too many men with unkempt beards?

    • Thanks for stopping in.

      As stated in the post, I’m not really interested in discussing cultural Marxism here. I hope you will google it though.

      I don’t think all Christians are racist and I think every demographic voted for Trump. To blame just white people is absurd and I think demonstrates ignorance on your part about the subject matter.

      Also, while you may find Trump to be the most important topic, that doesn’t mean we can’t talk about other topics that interest us. I’ve already posted plenty on Trump.

        • “The vast majority of Trump voters were white Christian racists from the countryside.”

          The majority of the country is white and they have just as much right to vote as anyone else.

          How do you know they were all racist? Did you poll them all? Have you not listened to any opposing arguments? Were they hiding when Obama was elected twice?

          “Clinton won the non-religious vote by over 31 points.”

          Yet many voted for Trump. I could point you towards several very popular (100+ thousand subscribers) YouTube atheists who were clearly hoping Trump would win.

          “Blame should go where it is deserved.”

          I agree. That rests squarely on the American people no matter their skin color. It also falls quite heavily on the Democrats who thought it a good idea to run Clinton and on people like you who call everyone racist if their political opinion or vote differed from your own. People don’t want to be shamed. Learn to have a conversation with them instead. Much easier to change their minds that way.

  4. Christian Western Civilization is proof that the Bible is of divine nature.

    Authentic human rights are a product of Christian Western Civilization.

    I’m studying a course on the Middle Ages by Dr. Daileader who got his Ph D. in history from Harvard University.

    Even secular studies of the Middle Ages include instruction on the profound influence of Christianity.

  5. I agree with what you say GC and this is basically another angle of the same old argument to criticise atheists and to somehow try and prove that we are the odd ones out because we do not believe in their god.

    I believe in many cases these antagonists are quite pissed off and resentful that they must spend much of their lives worshiping a god just in case there is a heaven and hell because they can see that atheists obviously can be just as moralistic and charitable as themselves but can live as they see fit without fear.

  6. Pingback: The irony of atheism | Random thoughts

  7. “But…how did Catholicism make your list of atheistic political movements? That’s freaking absurd. Catholicism is definitely religious in nature.”

    I agree that you cannot say that Catholics should be considered atheists… And I do agree, that Catholicism is a religion, as is Jehovah’s Witness, and Scientology, and Mormonism, and Wicca, for that matter… But a religion does not make one a Christian… God graces the sinner with salvation, through saving faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ…

    God indwells His redeemed children with the Holy Spirit, to empower them to live a “Christ centered” life…after the sinner understands and obeys the Gospel of Christ… (Go to my post and you will find “The Truth About Sin” in the about section of my blog…)

    I know a few “born again” Catholics, that still go to a Catholic church… Most have left and gone to a Bible believing, teaching, Protestant church… However, the ground rules for Catholicism were determined at the Council of Trent, held between 1545 and 1563.

    Specifically, one of the major problems that Catholics believe, was nailed down in the Council of Trent 6th session Chapter 16, CANON XXIV, in regards to Justification…

    CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema. (kicked out of the Catholic church)

    There it is my friends… Salvation is a combination of God’s grace AND good works to be justified before God, as His redeemed child… This is contrary to 2 pieces of scripture from the Bible…

    Ephesians 2:8-9… For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

    And… Matthew 7:21-23.. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (NKJV)

    I could go on and on about the man made rules and regulations that must be followed by the Catholic church… But Christ’s death and resurrection from the dead, took the place of the law… (Romans 8:2)

    Did you know that the assumption of Mary became dogmatic in the Catholic church in 1950 !! The Pope declared it, and it became set in stone…

    If one does not have the Holy Spirit (Christ Himself), living within them…they can call themselves Christians by all kinds of religions…but they are NOT Christians in God’s eyes…

    All of you never had the Holy Spirit indwelt by God in your heart, mind, and soul… If U did, and you are living for Christ, you would share your faith without fear of the comments and persecution I know will follow this post…

    I continue to pray every day for Ark, and all of those I first met on his blog… I pray for poor Arch’s family after his passing…and a few new friends I have met here and a few other sites…

    You all will never be convinced that God exists…until the Holy Spirit tells your spirit, that you are indeed a redeemed child of God…

    Romans 8:15-16… For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (NKJV)

    Have a great day my friends !!

    bruce

  8. The major problem is not religion, it’s false religion. Jehovah God has blessed all of us with free will. We can choose to believe in Him or not. I would invite you to read the bible in its entirety for yourself. I can’t physically prove to you that the bible is inspired if you wholeheartedly believe that it isn’t. However, what convinces me are the many bible prophecies that were written down hundreds of years ahead of time and all came true. Also, the fact that the bible’s message saves lives and offers comfort to all types of people all around the world convinces me as well. No other book, written so long ago, has done that. False religion is the root of a lot of the problems we see today not God himself.

    • Heather, how do you define false religion? Every religion known to man has been believed by millions or Billions of people to be the real one.

      The prophecies from the Old Testament, were simply fulfilled by the writers who wrote stories about their characters in the New Testament.

      As for the prophecies that are claimed to have been fulfilled by actual real life events. They can easily be applied to any number of events because they are vague and indefinable. Prophecies where the Bible makes very specific claims are the ones that have failed such as the second coming of Christ that has failed spectacularly many times over hundreds of years. If any of these prophecies had defied logic and been creditable the world would be in awe, however the opposite is true.

      The Bible and religious belief may bring comfort to all types of people, however do not turn a blind eye to the fact that Biblical beliefs have also cost millions of lives throughout history.

  9. “First off, you have to provide evidence that your scriptures are divine and not man-made.”

    GC, I love the fact that I can post my thoughts without being censored like other sites do…

    Not sure if I have shared this or not…but the Holy Spirit is urging me to post a previous blog, that mathematically proves God inspired the words, the writers of the Bible wrote…

    Here is the link… Would love to hear the comments…

    bruce

    There are several pages to open, to get to the mathematical proof…

    https://godsmanforever.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/the-bible-is-nothing-but-the-truth-proven-mathematically-11172014-by-bruce/

    • Godsmanforever. First off, prophecies have failed, especially the end of the world and Jesus returning to earth. The Bible is so vague and people have predicted hundreds of made up dates.

      You claim “100 prophecies of the Old Testament,” and “the New Testament verses proclaim the fulfillment.” Cannot even you see the glaring problem with this?

      Wiki: The Old Testament consists of many distinct books by various authors over a period of centuries. Some scholars have opined that the canon of the Hebrew Bible was established already by about the 3rd century BC with others suggesting later dates.

      Wiki: All the works that eventually became incorporated into the New Testament are believed to have been written no later than around 150 AD, and a small minority of scholars would date them to no later than 70 AD.

      Ids.org: Between Malachi and Matthew, four hundred years passed in the Holy Land for which we have no prophetic record.

      just how indoctrinated do you have to be to not be able to see through pure glass? And by the way, the “mathematical proof” appears to be wrong.

  10. I would challenge the idea of humanism being more flexible than faith in a deity. Look at the track record of humanism in the 20th century. Where man creates our own law and justice, it breaks down because “Why should I as self-determining human submit to YOUR laws?” Follow the trail of tears associated w/ Marxism. If a being greater than humankind set the laws if
    Justice, one can choose to accept or reject its legitimacy, but one may be unable to change its cause and effect in the material world.
    Another thought, since forgiveness predicates the continuity of all human relationships, how can humanism contribute to “loving one’s enemy”? This is a sincere question, not sarcasm.

  11. All laws can and do break down, that is a fact and the perpetrators may get time in jail or worse. We only have to look at some Islamic countries to see how unsuccessful it is to base laws for man on an ideologic prophet Muhammad and holly book that according to Islamic Muslims are the words of their god. This situation is very dangerous as we have found out and what flexibility does this have?

    Your comment: “since forgiveness predicates the continuity of all human relationships, how can humanism contribute to “loving one’s enemy”?”

    Humans can either condemn or forgive each other and this is normal human behaviour originally evolved along with many others to enable our survival. Our common ancestors may have had this ability considering they lived in a social environment just as many animals do today.

    Understandably and unfortunately the world has not taken forgiveness on board in any big way due to the emotions of fear and hate that is also an evolved survival trait, but I hope this answers your question.

  12. This argument from christians is so tiresome. First off your “holy” text is not divine. It was written by man; saying it is divinely inspired is an assertion. The bible is true because the bible says it is true is circular reasoning. There are many contradictions in the bible and “prophecies” that were written after the fact. The writers of the New Testament new the Old Testament and would write those prophecies into their “divine” message. OH and you want to claim morality as a christian? Seriously? Has this person read the buy bull? I was a fundamentalist christian (Assembly of God/non-denominational) for 30 years and read/studied the buy bull for 20 years. There is more immorality commanded and committed by the “god” of the bible than I care to put in this reply. The mental gymnastics and apologetics it takes to justify the acts of the war god of the desert is mind numbing.

    All morality is subjective even the morality or lack there of in the bible is subjective. It was written by man therefore it is subjective. Morality is determined by empathy, sympathy, and what best benefits society and individuals. Animals especially more intelligent ones display morality and group solidarity. I took a class at university called Deviance. My professor said something that stuck with me. She said if you remember one thing remember this “deviance is relative; it is relative to the society in which you live.”

    Jesus said some nice things but he also said some horrible and immoral things. I’m really getting tired of hearing Jesus promoted as the standard or banner of morality. Things like “I have not come to bring peace but a sword” or “you must hate your father and mother; I have come to turn mother against daughter and father against son”. There are many more of these nuggets of “wisdom” that Jesus said. Another thing I’m sick of is that every time an atheist points out the problems with the buy bull christians ask for proof and we are suppose to quote the verses as if christians don’t know what in the hell we are talking about. If I have to quote you the chapter and verses because when I make a reference you don’t know what I’m talking about maybe you don’t know your crappy book the way you are suppose to.

    It has been 2,000 years and we are still waiting for a justified reason for believing. Your personal experience does not count nor does your cobbled together unbelievable book full or stories a normal person wouldn’t believe like (here we go) blah: people living to over 800 years old, a talking snake, a talking donkey, a global flood, one family populating the world through incest, a man parting a sea, a talking burning bush, a man with long hair that has super powers lol, angels having sex with women producing “giants”, a virgin giving birth to a god baby, oh the trinity? please!, demonic possession, the sun standing still in the sky (as if the Sun revolves around the Earth), seven headed dragons and on and on and on.

  13. I like your response to this article! I find it annoying when Christians assert that “atheists believe there is no god.” This would be a positive claim made by an atheist, the “strong atheist” position. But not all atheists claim that because it is an unnecessary shifting of the burden of proof off of the original religious claim that there is a god or gods.

    Also, kcchief1, I like what you said that the “buck stops with me.” I believe humanism requires each of us to take responsibility for our own lives.
    I wanted to ask, am I the only one who struggles with the issue of forgiveness? Especially in regards to my Christian family, I think the obligation to give forgiveness often seems to allow the cycle of abuse in religion to continue endlessly. Maybe that’s tmi for a blog comment! I’m just curious.

  14. Enjoyed reading this! The world is so unbelievably complex; the simple black and white myths of both militant internet atheists and naive evangelists need breaking down so that productive and positive conversations can begin. No idea how you have got c. 70 comments – I have much to learn as a fellow blogger! (I reckon you may enjoy my posts as a similar mind!)

  15. Pingback: Glad I’m not the only nonbeliever who does this. | Disabled Thoughts

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