Just Because You Don’t Agree With Feminism Doesn’t Mean You Can Make Crap Up

I watched a video earlier about the 200 (or so) people who left an Amy Shumer show after she made jokes about Trump.

To be honest, I wasn’t impressed by the jokes or the fact that she called an audience member up on stage just to mock him because he said he wouldn’t vote for Hilary. However, that’s neither here nor there, since going to a comedy show often results in embarrassment for someone in the crowd.

I don’t really care that she used her free speech to politicize her comedy routine or that people used their feet to protest by leaving the show.

What I really took issue with is the person in the video (you can find the video at the end of this post) saying that Amy Shumer was a hypocrite because as a feminist, she had admitted to sexually assaulting a man who was drunk when she was in college, and because she was a woman and not a man, she had gotten away with it.

Being the skeptic that I am, I did some research to see if this claim was true. I tracked down the interview and sure enough, she doesn’t admit to sexually assaulting anyone.

At least in my opinion.

Basically, the first part of her speech centers around how she felt inadequate and starved for the attention of a man. She likes this guy, Matt, who reciprocates somewhat, and one day he calls and invites her over. She goes over to his room, only to find that he’s drunk.

You can read the entire speech by following this link:

Finally, the door opens. It’s Matt, but not really. He’s there, but not really. His face is kind of distorted, and his eyes seem like he can’t focus on me. He’s actually trying to see me from the side, like a shark. “Hey!” he yells, too loud, and gives me a hug, too hard. He’s fucking wasted.

This is where the charge of sexual assault begins. The idea is that because he was drunk and unable to consent, she raped him. But if you read the rest of the interview, this isn’t the case. She spends most of her time wanting to be somewhere else, and at no point does she say she was doing something to him without his consent.

We tried kissing. His 9 a.m. shadow was scratching my face — I knew it’d look like I had fruit-punch mouth for days after. His alcohol-swollen mouth, I felt like I was being tongued by someone who had just been given Novocain. I felt faceless, and nameless. I was just a warm body, and I was freezing cold. His fingers poked inside me like they had lost their keys in there. And then came the sex, and I use that word very loosely. His penis was so soft, it felt like one of those de-stress things that slips from your hand? So he was pushing aggressively into my thigh, and during this failed penetration, I looked around the room to try and distract myself or God willing, disassociate.

As you can see, Matt is the one doing the touching and trying to push his flaccid penis inside of her. She was trying to distract herself from the unpleasantness of the situation.

He started to go down on me. That’s ambitious, I think. Is it still considered getting head if the guy falls asleep every three seconds and moves his tongue like an elderly person eating their last oatmeal? Chelsea? Is it? Yes? It is. I want to scream for myself, “Get out of here, Amy. You are beautiful, you are smart, and worth more than this. This is not where you stay.”

Again, Matt is doing the touching. She’s just laying there.

At this point in the story, Matt falls asleep and Amy is still awake. She doesn’t like the music that’s playing so she jostles him awake and asks him to change the music. He crawls along the floor and changes the CD. He then resumes his inept attempt at sex.

I could feel I was losing myself to this girl in this bed. He stood up and put a new CD on. “Darling, you send me, I know you send me, honest, you do …” I’m thinking, “What is this?” He crawled back into bed, and tried to mash at this point his third ball into my vagina. On his fourth thrust, he gave up and fell asleep on my breast. His head was heavy and his breath was so sour, I had to turn my head so my eyes didn’t water.

That hardly sounds like she was sexually assaulting him. After reading the entire speech, I couldn’t for the life of me see how any of this could be construed as her sexually assaulting Matt.

It wasn’t as if he passed out and she pushed his penis inside her. It wasn’t like she was groping him while he was unable to consent.

He was the one initiating. In fact, at no point did she describe herself  initiating anything as far as I can tell. Going to his dorm room isn’t initiating sex and it certainly doesn’t constitute sexual assault or rape.

What do you think? Do you think Amy admitted to sexual assault?

Personally, I just don’t see it.

Go to the 2:50 mark to hear the sexual assault allegation made against Amy Shumer

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20 Comments

  1. My take is that anyone who is that drunk isn’t in a position to consent. It isn’t just passed out that too far gone. But why didn’t she just decline? It also doesn’t sound like he was forcing her to do anything either. It doesn’t say, was she also intoxicated?

    I don’t think she “got away with it” because she’s a woman. She was never charged with anything. He obviously didn’t press charges.

    • “But why didn’t she just decline? It also doesn’t sound like he was forcing her to do anything either. It doesn’t say, was she also intoxicated?”

      Yeah. The story doesn’t sound right to me either. She doesn’t say she was drunk, and she supposedly got the call to come over to Matt’s place at 8am.

      Like you say, I’m not sure why she doesn’t just decline or leave once she realizes she’s made a mistake. I’m also not sure why she doesn’t just leave when he passes out the first time or why she would bother to wake him up for something so trivial as a CD.

      “I don’t think she “got away with it” because she’s a woman. She was never charged with anything. He obviously didn’t press charges.”

      You’re right he probably didn’t press charges but just because he didn’t press charges, doesn’t mean she didn’t do it if you think that what she’s admitting to is sexual assault. Since she’s publicly admitted ii, the police could now press charges. If she were a man, do you think they would have pressed charges? If he was too drunk to be able to give consent (I don’t think he was but do you?) then what she did was a crime.

  2. I think the point of this is not who ‘assaulted’ whom, but why did this apparently independent-thinker of a woman endure that entire night with a drunken lout. She wasn’t chained to the bed, she wasn’t forced into anything, she wasn’t locked in the room. He got up from the bed, she STAYED there.

    At any point her free will could have kicked in as she quietly got up, put on the clothes she apparently had removed, and left. He probably wouldn’t have noticed, or cared.

  3. I don’t know that I’d qualify Schumer’s actions as sexual assault or not, but it’s not that clear. It kind of reminds of the Bearing videos about the presumption of guilt. If she was drunk too, then no, it was not sexual assault. Period.

    However, if she was sober, and this guy was that drunk, then she took advantage of him. But is it really sexual assault? Let me stick that on a shelf and instead say that if she was sober, and he wasn’t that it makes her a spectacular bitch.

    I’ve got younger sisters. If some douchebag did that to my sister, I’d do everything in my power to see to it that he went to jail. I also have younger brothers. If some sick bitch did that to one of them, then I wouldn’t say, ‘Well, it’s different’. No. I’d do everything in my power to make certain that the offender went to jail. Now let me repeat, that is if and only if she was sober, which is not clear in the story.

    Think I’m wrong to take it that seriously? Let’s change the story a bit. Nineteen year old guy, so drunk he doesn’t have a clear idea what he’s doing, forty five year old woman, stone cold sober allows him to perform sexual acts on her. Now it sounds a bit different maybe? Does the age difference make a real difference? No. Because even at the young age of nineteen, an adult is an adult, and I have known a whole lot of nineteen year olds far too responsible to ever take advantage of anyone that drunk.

    You know, looking at it that way, I’m gonna say, yes, if she was sober, it was sexual assault. Again, that’s IF. A pretty big if.

    • You’re right that it’s not clear in the story whether she was intoxicated or not. That’s a key piece of information missing.

      “Let’s change the story a bit. Nineteen year old guy, so drunk he doesn’t have a clear idea what he’s doing”

      How do you measure this? If they’re capable of making phone calls and changing CD’s, that shows some self awareness. I think he knows what he’s doing and he might regret it in the morning, but he’s made a choice to do it.

      Let’s say he were to leave his apartment and get into a fight because of his intoxication. He would still be held responsible for his actions. Saying he was drunk at the time and that he regrets fighting in the morning doesn’t excuse him from responsibility for his actions.

      I think there are all sorts of possibilities that would make this story sexual assault/rape, such as him being unconscious when she had sex with him but in this particular version of events, I don’t really see it.

      • Your point about holding a drunk responsible for a fight he starts is pretty strong. However, it does change the question a bit. Let’s take away the fight and make it more serious. If a young guy gets drunk then heads out into the world and rapes someone, then I hold the drunk responsible for the rape. Does being drunk mean you can’t be the perpetrator of a crime? Of course not. That’s the reason drunk drivers get into trouble.

        If he’s drunk though, can he really give consent? Now I’m not a feminist either, but I do believe that you simply do not engage in any kind of sexual activity with someone without consent. Period. I would never, ever take advantage of a girl who was drunk. Does that kind of mentality apply to drunk men? Yes. In my own perspective anyway. I know that because if I were gay, I would never, ever take advantage of a man who was drunk. It’s wrong.

        Drinking impairs judgment. A drunk can’t walk a straight line, but he can walk. And he can change CDs and make phone calls. And he or she can be victimized due to their condition, even if they think they want it at the time. Is it rape? That depends on the exact nature of the encounter. In the case of the Schumer story, even if she was sober, I wouldn’t call it rape. Is it sexual assault though? Yes. If you grab someone’s ass against their will it’s sexual assault. Nowhere near as serious as rape, but still sexual assault. And sleeping with someone too drunk is much worse than just grabbing someone’s ass.

        If I knew some poor schmuck who had this done to him, I’d tell him, “Well, you shouldn’t have had so damn much to drink. Look what can happen.” That I would admonish the drinker for drinking does not absolve the person who knowingly took advantage though.

        Now you’re right that he might not have been that drunk. It is entirely possible that male or female a person can just make a drunken mistake. So I’ll admit that I see it that same way, and I should have said so in my first response. However, you can also be a victim when you’re drunk, and, even though it’s my own words I’m attacking here, you don’t have to be “too drunk to know what you’re doing.” It’s a bit complicated, I could write an essay on how drunk you are and have to be. Okay, I couldn’t, but I’m sure someone could. Here’s a question that you have to ask whether or not you consider it sexual assault. Would he have have done that if he was sober? If the answer is no, then at the very least she took advantage (presuming that she’s sober in that instance). Call it by that label if you want. It’s still wrong.

        Now it occurs to me that I’m really not taking on the issue of whether or not Amy Schumer is being hypocritical. I was really just ranting about whether or not a drunken young man can be a victim. I don’t give a damn about Schumer, her story or how it relates to her ‘performance’ on stage that day. Just to make it clear what I’m talking about, it wasn’t her. It was just the idea that I believe that taking advantage of a drunk individual sexually can be sexual assault.

        • “Drinking impairs judgment. A drunk can’t walk a straight line, but he can walk. And he can change CDs and make phone calls. And he or she can be victimized due to their condition, even if they think they want it at the time.”

          Oh yeah, I agree. I think the question is (as you point out) how drunk is too drunk? At what point does having sex with someone under the influence go from possible bad idea to sexual assault. I think if he’s making decisions for himself, then it hasn’t crossed that line. If he were to do something illegal, he’d still be held responsible. She didn’t make him drink to excess or call herself over.

          Do I think they both made bad decisions and what she did was possibly ethically wrong?

          Yeah, I could probably be persuaded to say that. Do I think she should be charged with sexual assault?

          No.

          “Would he have have done that if he was sober? If the answer is no, then at the very least she took advantage (presuming that she’s sober in that instance). Call it by that label if you want. It’s still wrong.”

          That’s part of the problem. It’s really impossible to ascertain that.

          I think most people have had experiences where they got drunk and had sex with someone they wouldn’t necessarily have if they were sober at the time. They might have woken up in the morning and thought ‘what have I done’ and got the hell out of there.

          Should their partners now be charged with sexual assault?

          I don’t think so.

          Great dialogue Matthew. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment here. 🙂

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