Re: The Unbelievers and Defenses of Atheism

atheism4

Random picture of my baby trying on Halloween costumes

Yesterday, we went out looking at Halloween costumes. I’m going to be a Pirate of the Caribbean and my lady is going to be a Firefighter.

I originally tried on an Aladdin outfit that looked ridiculous. It looked like a mutilated version of a spacesuit, but we had fun looking around and trying to figure out what costume to buy.

I had to buy something ‘family friendly’ since I’ll be wearing mine at a variety of Halloween parties that clients want to attend and so forth.

Anyhow, I was skimming around WordPress this morning while sipping my coffee, and ran across two posts I wanted to address.

The first one is titled, Defenses of Atheism, and this is what it says:

atheism

What about the uncaused cause? God would have to follow the same rule you have put up for existence. What caused God, and what caused the God that caused God etc.

You would have to unpack what you mean by ‘spiritual’. We can explain many spiritual experiences using science, depending on what you’re talking about.

Finally, science is closing in on a theory of consciousness. Follow the link if you’re really interested in an answer, rather than just baiting atheists.

Also, I trust that science is a better method of coming to a correct answer than I am the idea that people a few thousand years ago knew the answer because a magical being told them so.

All of these questions are a sort of god of the gaps arguments. Just because you don’t know something doesn’t mean a supernatural god is the answer.

The next post is titled, The Unbelievers. I found it fairly amusing.

atheism2

Yes. Solitude is a believers best friend. That’s why they’ve built millions of churches and gather every week.

Makes sense.

I think it more likely believers are ‘stronger’ in groups because they can go to church and partake in some confirmation bias, and reinforce their initial indoctrination.

Against whom do you wage war, you lunatics? Is it against the One who kindles suns with His thought, and goads His flocks of suns and stars with His staff?

Do you not understand that atheists don’t believe in this superhero god? Of course they don’t wage war on it.

What some of them take exception to is the ideology that makes up your religion and how it’s often used to justify cruelty and authoritarian principles.

Indeed, He created your vocal cords in your throat, and expanded your lungs beneath these cords, and cut open your mouth and attached your tongue to your mouth.

Damn. Here I thought my mom and dad got together and…well…I’m sure you get the picture.

Like a child, He is powerless to do evil. He does not return evil for evil, for He is destitute when it comes to evil. Instead He merely gathers His good gifts and walks off with them, away from the one who gnashes his teeth at Him.

Isn’t that a form of evil?

I’ll leave this quote here because I feel as though if this being existed, it would apply to it as well as us.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

-Edmund Burke

I have told my people—remember: such is the victory of the Life-Giver, and such is the defeat of the Godless.

But not the defeat of…the Godless Cranium. 🙂

Advertisements

23 Comments

    • “God can’t be caused by the physical laws of his creation”

      That seems to be true of anything. The cause of anything like a god or a painting that appears without evidence of how it had been created either by something or someone we do not know anything about must be pure speculation at best, wouldn’t you agree?

  1. On the uncaused cause. Typical Christian doctrine has it that God is eternal and unchanging. Current cosmology has it that the universe has a fixed beginning. If we put the too of them together then God existed unchanging for an eternity before suddenly changing, thus violating his nature and creating the universe. So how do we explain God’s uncaused cause. And if God can violate his nature because he is #God, then there is nothing to stop him from being evil because he is #God

        • Sheep,

          Here is you arguing with yourself and losing in your own words of course:

          “If we put the too of them together then God existed unchanging for an eternity before suddenly changing…”

          “If we put the two of them together…,” is nonsense because God can’t be put together with the universe unless he is, by nature, part of the universe subject to its natural laws.

          Unfortunately, to be so stupid you must be in a state of complete sobriety.

          And that is precisely the problem with atheism.

          • Oh Silence, you really need to lay off the hooch and take a nap. There is nothing in my statement that subjects God to the laws of the universe, I am only subjecting God to the laws of his own nature. If you think that is unfair to God, well I can’t really help you at that point

            The Bible teaches that God is eternal and unchanging. That means for all eternity before creating the universe God existed in a perfect, eternal, unchanging state while not creating the universe. This was his nature and his nature was perfect. Going from not creating the universe for eons, to creating the universe is by definition a change. Changing is something God cannot do because of his very nature as described by God’s perfect, entirely true book, The Bible. So what caused God to violate his nature and change? And can he do it again? And if he can do it again does that mean he can do evil things like kill babies with impunity… Oh, wait, he does kill babies with impunity…

            This is precisely the problem with being a pseudo intellectual. Nobody said God is the universe, nobody tried to bind God to the laws of the universe. You made up problems you thought you could answer and show off your intellectual superiority, but just revealed you have no idea what you are talking about at all.

            • Sheep,

              Your error, as usual, overlooking the obvious.

              The action taken by an agent of freewill (you, me or God) does not change the agent’s nature.

              Just think for a moment about an artist who decides to create something or change something.

              He may change the nature of work or simply change the work around the edges to make it more beautiful.

              But his own nature remains unchanged.

              Similarly, in the act of creating the universe, God’s nature as all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, eternal and unchanging, did not change, either.

              Like the human nature of the artist who creates the work of art, the nature of God who created universe, remains unchanged by his act of creation.

              Being an atheist an all, you may something a little stronger than my hooch to understand the obvious.

              • @som,

                To quote myself verbatim…

                Christians make the following claims:

                1. God is a perfect being.
                2. God created the universe.
                3. God desires adoration and obedience.

                By definition, the word perfect means complete, i.e:

                – lacking in no essential detail
                – as good as it is possible to be
                – entirely without flaws, defects, or shortcomings
                – excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement.

                In other words, a perfect being is a being without needs or desires. Yet claims two and three directly contradict claim one. Moreover, the god of the Bible is prone to sudden paroxysms of rage, anger, hatred, jealousy, vengefulness, grief and remorse — hardly the traits of a perfect and complete being.

                Hence, the Christian conception of God is severely flawed.

                • Sheep,

                  How can you, an atheist, possibly be so shameless as to lecture someone, anyone, on Christian doctrine?

                  You don’t know what you are talking about and it has absolutely nothing to do with my own comments, which are rooted in the teachings of Aristotle who was born 500 years before Christ.

                  Please don’t drag me into your arguments against Christians.

                  I am on these pages trying to reason with you in the manner of our Western Heritage.

                  My greatest weapon here is common sense, which is nothing more than simple reasoning.

                  I have simply pointed that your own argument is based on claims that violate common sense.

                  It’s as simple and easy to understand as that.

                    • Sklyjd,

                      The institution of slavery was simple common since until recently in human history.

                      Aristotle, the “philosopher of common sense,” himself believed that slavery was as natural as sunlight.

                      Also, common sense is wasted on algebra, geometry, calculus and physics.

                      So we have to be careful with our thinking and understand the limits of tools like common sense.

                      Did you know that every civilization in human history grew up around religion?

                      Also, have you given any thought to the fact that Western Civilization, the greatest, most prosperous, most technically advanced, most just civilization in human history grew up around Christianity?

                      Atheism, the 100% faith-based belief that everything just happened all by itself, is in fact, the 100% denial of common sense.

                    • Som, I take your word for it and it sounds logical and has “common sense” that every civilisation grew up around religion. It is also logical and common sense that religions were established due to the lack of knowledge in the sciences along with the underdeveloped understanding of humanity, morality and social aspects of life such as slavery and the methods of punishment as against what we understand today.

                      With more logical deduction and common sense, it is clear we have evolved to understand much more about the world and life in all aspects in the modern 21 century and it is quite predictable that the need for religions, gods and deities is far less of a requirement by the current populations and will decline over time.

                      Atheism does not have faith “that everything just happened all by itself.” Atheists do not know any more than you and speculate just as religions do about life and the universe, however atheists usually build their knowledge on current evidence and have overwhelming confidence or if you prefer “faith” that science will slowly and eventually find the answers to all these questions.

  2. “…He is powerless to do evil…”

    Yet the scriptures say:

    “I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7

    Was the bishop ignorant, or just plain lying? And why is an all-powerful god incapable of vanquishing the evil it has unleashed?

  3. A’s are round. If B is not round, it is not an A. B is not round, so B is not an A.
    Even given all the premises, the ‘first cause’ argument does not yield much. We know one and only one thing about B at the end of it, and that by the definition of A.
    Worse, it invites the question, “What happened when the uncaused ’caused’ the first event?”
    There can be no explanation of that event – by definition. It is entirely uninformative.
    The whole mess is a monumental failure, and a waste of time.

  4. Most excellent deconstruction, friend. And now I know you are a true apologist. I admire muchly.

    A couple of your points resonated quite profoundly with me. For instance, I’ve several atheist friends and I’ve never known them to speak out, let alone wage war against God. You can’t wage war on something you don’t believe in.

    In fact, my “non-believer” friends tend to be very moral. I find them intelligent, kind, and many other positive characteristics. This is in no way a comparison, however, as I prefer to remove myself from this debate. I’ll debate other social issues, but rarely politics and religion, which is sort of a misnomer, considering most social issues often stem from either or both of those topics.

    Take this comment with a grain of salt, please! After all, I still believe in magical things like unicorns, santa claus, and bigfoot. 😀

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s